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COOL Activities: COOL Green

Posted on Monday, September 04 @ 18:47:57 UTC by skip

This is a thread from the Old COOL forums.  You can respond using the Comments option.

For me, and I'm sure this is probably true for many others here, problem number one confronting humanity in this coming century is environmental meltdown and climate change.
I think that COOL should definitely be pro-active in promoting a greater awareness of these issues, and encouraging people to adopt an environmentally friendly lifestyle, so far as this is possible and practical.

These days, the focus of the green movement in general is very much on global warming and its consequences - and that is a huge issue. But myself I'm also very concerned still about the neuclear issue - neuclear power is something that UK politicians are now seeking to re-sell to the public, and they're even going so far as to label it 'green', because it doesn't produce so much in the way of CO2 emmissions. This is a worrying trend, and in my view, extremely dishonest.

But there's also wider issues - how can dehumanizing and squalid environments in cities be changed to make them into more pleasant spaces to live.

To what extent were/are people like Buckminster Fuller on the right track with the idea of redesigning technology to make it sustainable?

How can the global issues be adressed - because it is a global issue such as we have not confronted before. It's little use for a few more enlightened people in affluent western countries to adopt green lifstyles whilst India and China are daily increasing the pollution levels. The USA is also a major culprit in all this.


global warming. causes: use of combustion to propell energy and transportation times the number of human population using and dependent on using this.

solution(s): reduction/replacement of method and/or reduction/replacement of users of method.

probable outcomes: human population implosion at some point due to an altered environment no longer favoring human population levels as currently witnessed.

alternatives to probable future suffering: replacement of methods with known reliable methods that do not contribute to the problem.

reality: this will not immediatly chainge the situation but can and will over time.

problem: political resistence to implimentation of viable solutions.

hopefully this is a temporary impediment. one that people will likely abondon when their own surivival directly depends on doing so. of course by then famine and disease will most likely already be widespread, in a sense solving it as nature always deals with species that get out of balance with their environment.

also the means of causing the problem is not perminent, but relying on, waiting for it to end/run out, is not adiquite or sensable.

redesigning technology to make is sustainable is not a choice. we will be forced to in order to survive as a species.

there are of course a lot of things we could, can and will, live without, simply because they will at some point no longer be available, but innovation is the only thing that is uniquely our nature as a species. we have simply gone unwisely overboard in our energy and convenience gluttony.

Myself I'd rather see some meaningful action now before disaster strikes.

Also - it's not just cars - China for instance generates most of its electricity by burning high sulphur coal which is extremely high in CO2 and other harmful emmisions.
Air travel is another thing.
So what are they doing about it? Predicting a doubling in air traffic over the next 20 years.

And as I said before the nueclear issue, which although it gets less attention nowadays than a few years back is still a serious problem that hasn't gone away and won't for many thousands of years.

Then again, perhaps Bob Marley was right - 'total destruction the only solution'.
it is all due to the nearly total lack of being parktdolg duty among general humanity that all of this has come about. if yeh know what I mean. we are likely headed for a planetary perturbation, imho.
One of the things that comes out of Gurdjieff's work for me is the idea that Mankind has a responsibilty and a duty towards all nature. We are meant to be stewards in this world. We don't have the right to trash the planet, other spieces or indeed other humans.

This is in marked contradistinction to the trad. Christian attitude for instance, which seems to imagine we can do whatever we like with the earth, and that it's just put there by God for us to exploit.

In 'Beelzebub' the extraordinary claim is made that man is shortening his lifespan by extracting electricity from nature - that could well turn out to be true on the level of the spieces as a whole. If we continue to generate electricity using either fossil fuels or neuclear power, we are risking damaging the environment to the extent that it will no longer be capable of supporting human or animal life (a few bacteria would probably adapt).

To return again to the neuclear thing - as we know, neuclear waste cannot be disposed of safely. Burying it is simply shortsighted and a way of putting off the problem until tommorrow. We can't blast it into outer space as the technology simply isn't reliable - imagine 'challenger' loaded with neuclear waste.
It will need to be looked after for many thousands of years. I see a problem here, as the longest lasting human civilizations have only lasted about 5.000 years. So if the ancient chinese in 2,000 BC had been producing neuclear waste, it would still be very dangerous for another 15.000 years or so.
Now they're trying to tell us it's 'green'. Mind bogling.
Clearly, among many other things, G was issuing a warning. His mission, after all (at least in part), is to save the world and humanity from human destruction.

If we look at the current state of affairs, it is clear that his concerns were well founded.

Faith Hope Love
Clearly, among many other things, G was issuing a warning. His mission, after all (at least in part), is to save the world and humanity from human destruction.

If we look at the current state of affairs, it is clear that his concerns were well founded.

Faith Hope Love
Yes - Gurdjieff ceratinly shows us 'the terror of the situation'. But many, many more people need to become sensitive to these issues. And error has been piled on error since G's time.

It's wierd, but when I began this thread I felt quite confident that there would be a few at least who feel that a generally 'green' agenda is of absolutely fundamental importance - yet hardly anyone has responded. It was the same when I began a 'Green Spirituality' thread in the P&R forum some time back.
If that's the case in a hippie forum, and moreover, a spiritual community, then f**k knows - what chance is there? Has all 'objective conscience' become atrophied in people as Mr. Gurdjieff suggests?
I hear you Brother, loud and clear! Very few are concerned, it seems. Tho' reportedly, through the media, numbers are growing in terms of "green consumerism." (oxymoron)

Remember that people in general were asleep in G's time. There are many more agents of sleep at work now. Consider Television alone! Very maleficent!

Faith Hope Love
It's wierd, but when I began this thread I felt quite confident that there would be a few at least who feel that a generally 'green' agenda is of absolutely fundamental importance - yet hardly anyone has responded.

Don't worry this is very high on the COOL agenda. It's a big concern for all of us, but given the present world situation, it's hardly a priority among politicians.

I just read how the war with Lebanon has already created one of the worst ecological disasters to hit the Mediterranean. Half of Lebanon's golden sands are covered in an oil slick that is going to spread all over the eastern Med. Israel bombed oil tanks right by the sea. Ironically it's expected to hit Israel eventually.

This just shows how the world's priorities are fucked up right now, and how quickly this war can cause damage that will last a lifetime or in the case of potential nuclear fallout many lifetimes.

And our leader won't even discuss an immediate ceasefire.

But this political stuff needs it's own forum...
goes looking for that forum,...

Bill, back to ecological awareness and faith, PLEASE start a sister thread in Enviro!
and some (disjointed) thoughts on your comments:
Bucky Fuller:
I thing his mindset is right in that it is easier to change the tech than the buyer!
Plus, in the US and Canada (and other spread out places) a car is a part time necessary evil.

{example you could skip} My personal options are limited and we have a reasonable public transport system, it's just oriented to the center with inadequate spokes, but improving. My car is needed for about 75 miles per week, 90 percent related to employment: not the commute, but actually doing the job. I don't NEED to use highway, so a three-wheeled scooter or a good ebike/trike is an option BUT the house needs one conventional vehicle and the best eco option on market, IF we had the funds, would be a hybrid SUV for the art biz (we have three jobs between two adults)
{end example}

Nukes: I had the "honor" of attending a day in honor of the community I cover (reporter) at my state capitol.
A good bit into the morning, Rep. Bob Beuaprez appeared, flown on a presidential helicopter from the National Renewable Energy Lab in Golden, Colorado (some 30 miles away, mind you) blithering how hydrogen is the answer to US oil dependence. He also added nukes in the equation, citing national security (short-sighted imo).
{This man is running for governor (he served only one congressional term and has been campaigning more than half of that) and is a Bush party line kind of guy.}
the attending audience was in agreement!
so now a large handful of community leaders are pro nuke BECAUSE of the war!
So the US is also selling Nukes as green AS THEY DID IN THE 70S.
Reread that capped part.

For these large countries with sprawl, we have to rethink the distances created between where we live and where we work or play.
and that has to be done on multiple fronts: political, economic and spiritual.
If Xtianity were to laud and promote stewardship of the planet with an eye to keeping it together (not the current apolyptic model) from the pulpit and in all of its tenticles, the US would by simple defult of identification, fall in line.
Add the other Abramic religions, and mine does have a mitzvah to heal the world, and the mid east triad could potentially change the entire world's outlook on how we treat the planet.

So how does COOL enter into this?
Most of us have/had affiliation with a big five faith or offshoot.
Let's gather the texts and sages who have promoted this and start reintroducing it into the liberal branches and the ecstatic branches of our parent faiths.
the middle will get it seeping in both sides!
Thanks to drumminmamma and Skip.

I'm actually going away from monday to the 'Big Green Gathering' - billed as europe's largest green festival - I've been in previous years and it's been good.
Anyway, no doubt my 'radical' batteries will get re-charged whilst I'm there, so I'll def. have more to say on these issues when I get back.
in nevada city california the're having something called powerpaloosa.

it's about finding ways to impliment alternatives at the local level and actualy implimenting them. it is a very innovative place where a lot of people and bussinessess have and are both off grid and grid tied wind and solar.

the're actualy considering ways of solving traffic congestion without widining the streets which would totaly destroy the place if they did (widen them).

i know what the'll be up against and they know that too.
they have a pretty darn good little alternative radio station up there
that has regularly scheduled programing about things like that too.

they webcast at kvmr.org if anyone's interested. there's a program guide online at their website so you can figgure out what's on when.

i'm sure there are other little alternative media outlets like that arround the country and arround the world that give listen live webfeeds too.

alternative energy and transportation are what really interest me personaly, along with other ways we can live harmoniously and conscienscously without asceticism too.

local and regeonal co-generation green energy coops, and something called something like green energy cupons or something like that.

The solution might have to start one person at a time untill attention is drawn to the issue. What can WE ourselves do in our everyday lives to begin to remedy the ripoff of our Mother?
I have begun to use as little electricity as possible, and ,having well water, i watch to make sure none is wasted.I also recycle as much as possible,even looking to the food chain, scraps to the chickens, not the trash.
I think that it is very important that we as individuals do everything possible to protect the environment in whatever ways we can. Recycling is certainly good, as is using environmentally friendly products, and developing an awareness of how what we consume impacts on the eco system of the planet.
An example - much of the de-forested land in the Amazon basin is used to cultivate soya beans which are then sold mainly as feed for chickens. A lot goes to European farmers - probably the US too, I'm not certain - so in effect, eating mass produced chicken in Europe is not only contributing to animal cruelty in the form of battery farming, but also incresing the demand for land and hence the rate of destruction of the rain forests.

But also, I think wider 'political' action is needed. I think that it's little use for a few more enlightened people in the west to adopt low-impact lifestyles whilst countries like India and China are incresing their output of CO2 and many other toxins daily - they will soon overtake the USA -still the highest user of energy and the highest emmission rates per person in the world - around 26 tons of carbon per head of population - in poor third world countries it's about 6 tons, and 12 in Europe.
So I think it's important that the world wakes up - and I'm afraid that only America can lead the way. Little sign of that at the moment.

Myself, I see all this as a sign that only a new consciousness can help mankind. We have no choice but to start thinking in global 'big picture' terms.
I think this site makes some good points, unfortunately. See what you think:

This is from the album 'Greendale' by Neil Young.

Be the Rain.

Save the planet for another day
Attention shoppers.
Buy with a conscience and save.
Save the planet for another day
Save Alaska!
Let the caribou stay.
Don't care what the governments say
They're all bought
and paid for anyway.
Save the planet for another day
Hey Big Oil!
What do you say?
We were runnin' through the night
Never knowin' if we would see the light
Paranoid schizophrenic visions
Livin in fear of the wrong decisions
We got to wake up
We got to keep goin'
If they follow us
There's no way of knowin'
We got a job to do
We got to save Mother Earth
Be the ocean when it meets the sky
You can make a difference.
If you really try.
Be the magic in the Northern lights
Six Days...
Six nights.
Be the river as it rolls along
It has three-eyed fish.
And it's smellin' strong.
Be the rain you remember fallin'
Be the rain.
Be the rain

Yeah, rain was fallin' and we're soakin' wet
Hail is beatin' down on our heads
The wind is blowin' through our hair
Faces frozen in the frigid air
We got to get there
We got to be there
Before the big machines
We got a job to do
We got to save Mother Earth
Dream the hunter on the western plain
The birds are all gone.
Where did they go?
Dream the fisherman in his boat
He's comin' home empty.
He's barely afloat.
Dream the logger in the great northwest
They're runnin' out of trees.
They got to give it a rest.
(There's no other way to cut it)
Dream the farmer in the old heartland
Corporate greed and chemicals
are killin' the land.
Next mornin' Sun was up at dawn
She looked around and Earth was gone
Dark visions he had last night
He needed peace, he needed light.
He heard the rumble and
He saw the big machines
The green army rose
It was a bad dream
He had a job to do
He had to save Mother Earth
Be the ocean when it meets the sky
Greek freighters are dumping
crap somewhere right now.
Be the magic in the northern lights
(The ice is melting!)
Be the river as it rolls along
Toxic waste dumpin'
from corporate farms.
Be the rain you remember fallin'
Be the rain.
Be the rain.
Save the Planet for another day
Be the rain.
Be the rain.
Be the river as it rolls along
Be the rain.
Be the rain.
Be the rain, be the rain
here's a link to something 'concrete'. i've probably mentioned before. sorry it's taken till now for me to get arround to posting it (the link)



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